PermaDAO 1-on-1 Interview: Lucifer, Co-Founder of 0rbit
Through the interview with the co-founder of 0rbit, we learned about the founding background, development status, and future direction of Arweave and AO ecosystem projects. While the contributors of PermaDAO have a better understanding of the project, the project also knows the operation and collaboration mode of PermaDAO and enhances the influence of PermaDAO in the Arweave ecosystem, especially among European and American teams.
Author's statement: This article is only an interview with the project parties by the author, and the introduction of the project parties is not intended as any investment advice. Please comply with the laws of your country and conduct Web3 activities in compliance with regulations.
Author: Xiaosong HU
Translator: Xiaosong HU
Reviewer: Scarlett
Source: Content Guild Translation
Time flies, and we have already entered August. With the Japanese government's interest rate hike policy, the entire cryptocurrency market is experiencing the most violent shock this year. The market atmosphere is filled with uneasiness and anxiety. However, amid the downturn, Arweave and the AO ecosystem have shown remarkable vitality, like a beacon in the darkness, guiding the way forward. Recently, the Arweave ecosystem has been full of good news and wonderful things. The highly anticipated Hyper Parallel 2024 Asia Intercity Shuttle Tour ended successfully in Beijing and Shenzhen. This event brought AO technology and concepts to more developers and users, injecting new impetus into the vigorous development of the Arweave ecosystem in Asia. At the same time, the second season of the Arweave India Hackathon Competition also ended successfully in July. This competition not only produced many outstanding Asian teams and projects but also radiated Arweave's influence to a wider area.
It is worth mentioning that the rise of the Indian team in the Arweave ecosystem is unstoppable. They are gradually becoming an emerging force in the entire Arweave Asian community, contributing a steady stream of vitality to the prosperity and development of the ecosystem. The excellent project we are going to introduce today, 0rbit, comes from this country full of potential.
The birth of the 0rbit project is not only a microcosm of the development of the Arweave ecosystem but also a manifestation of the Indian team's continuous exploration and innovation in the field of Web3. Let us walk into 0rbit together, understand the story behind this project, and feel the vigorous vitality of the Arweave ecosystem.
Project Introduction - 0rbit
0rbit is a decentralized Oracle network built on AO, which is used to provide access to unlimited data for any AO process. The "unlimited data" mentioned here means that the AO process can access any data from any valid source. At present, 0rbit has received more than 250K real-world requests on AO. At the same time, the project also issued its own token: $0RBT. Note: Currently, it is only issued on the test network. The official token needs to wait for further news on the official website! Interested friends can obtain tokens by completing some official tasks. In addition, there is also a collection of $0RBT in everPay.
The link below is the official website and technical documents of 0rbit, you can check it yourself:
Part I: Regarding 0rbit
Q: Hello, Mr. Lucifer! I am from PermaDAO, the largest Asian community incubated by Arweave. I am glad that you can accept our interview. Could you please introduce the 0rbit and how it was established?
A: The journey started at Arwevae India Hacker House Cohort#1, where we built an app for one-click migration from an Amazon S3 bucket to Arweave. At that time, I was very new to the Arweave space and was still trying to understand the tech. After that, we secured the second prize there, and meanwhile, I started digging into Arweave more.
After a month, Sam came to India, and Cohort members got the chance to meet him. Until then, I had many questions for him and ideas to build on top of Arweave. However, all my questions were answered by a single tech that Sam introduced, and we hacked into it together. That tech was AO. At that moment, my brain had a burst of ideas and dopamine. AO was the answer to most of my questions if not all.
I have always been fascinated by bringing data from the Internet to a blockchain, and when I started working on Arweave, I was amazed at what could be done and the extent of it. Unlike other chains, Arweave is a blockchain built for storing stuff for future generations. However, I was struggling with Oracle and discovered there aren’t any. The only one I came up with is the one PermaSwap created, and that’s for a specific use case. Oracles have been misunderstood in the Web3 industry a lot. Nowadays, whenever we hear Oracle, the main thing that comes to mind is price feeds and numerical data. And that’s not wrong since that has only been possible so far. But the possibilities are still vast. Oracles are, by definition, the source of knowledge and, here, data from the Internet. One could get any information needed through an Oracle, not just a particular type.
That is the idea with which I started the conversation with Sam. We even discussed the architecture, and the idea of 0rbit was incepted there. Since then, we have been building 0rbit with the help of Forward Research and Arweave India.
We launched 0rbit with the launch of AO, and many protocols use 0rbit as their core infrastructure. With 0rbit, we want to provide an Oracle infrastructure that is not limited to a particular data source or type. 0rbit is an infrastructure that can provide limitless access to the data served over the Internet in your AO process. 0rbit is much needed in the ecosystem, if we won’t build it someone else will as without an oracle we will be restricting so many use cases that can be built over AO.
Image: Lucifer and Sam discussing AO & 0rbit
Q: We found that the name 0brit is composed of numbers and letters. Why did you choose such a name?
A: haha! We struggled a lot while coming up with the name 0rbit, but finally, we all agreed to it. The analogy behind this is simple: In the future, 0rbit will be a crucial piece of infrastructure for getting data from the Internet, and many different types of products will be built over 0rbit for a particular type of data. 0rbit will be the centerpiece around which these new products will revolve, making it a path around 0rbit. However, Orbit is a common name, and to stand out, we replaced O with 0(zero) so that there would be no confusion once people understood it. Plus, it looks very cool.
Q: What are some significant milestones in the history of 0rbit？ What is the future vision and plan for 0rbit？
A: 0rbit has successfully processed over 150,000 requests to access real-world data, resulting in more than 450,000 messages on AO.
We estimate that over 600 users across various projects have leveraged 0rbit to fetch diverse data from the internet into their AO processes. Apart from all this, we have a growing community on Twitter and Discord. Ten plus 0rbit nodes are running and are part of the network.
Also, we successfully launched v1 in May, and since then, people have been experiencing a smooth flow in getting the data.
We are working on the verification module, which will help us verify all the requests on AO so there will be no need for trust in the network. Once we achieve that, anyone can set up an 0rbit node and start earning 0rbit tokens as fees with each request they process. Simultaneously, we are working on tokenomics, which will hopefully be launched soon. We are figuring out a way to do a similar community launch just like AO. An alpha here would be that people can earn 0rbit tokens by staking aoETH in the 0rbit network once the bridged asset comes on AO.
Q: How many full-time staff members are currently working at 0rbit, and what are the ways for others to get involved? How do you incentivize participation?
A: The global team building of 0rbit consists of 5 full-time and contracting contributors. Most of the stuff that we are doing is open source, and soon, everything will be open-sourced. One is always welcome to suggest changes and contribute to the network. We have also had quests, weavers, bounties, and partnerships. Many of these mentioned have built-in incentive structures. There are many more stuff that we are planning around these as soon we will require people to battle test and contribute to the network. Keep an eye on our Twitter and Discord for these updates.
Q: Why did you choose to develop on Arweave? What brought 0rbit and Arweave together?
A: I have been in the Web3 space since 2021 and have worked on different projects since then. However, the concept of Oracle and experience, whether Developer or User, have always intrigued me. When I first built on Arweave, this could be optimized in this ecosystem. That's why I started in the ecosystem, but the idea of limitless access to the internet from blockchain was still very far-fetched. Then Forward Research introduced AO, with which I could see a way how to build it. The Hyperparalellization and Modularity AO provides is the answer to building it. The way 0rbit is being built, I can say currently, there is no way we can do the same thing in any other ecosystem without costing a fortune for a single request, and in some cases, the computations can even reach the gas limits.
Q: In your opinion, what is the biggest challenge that 0rbit and Arweave face?
A: As with every web3 protocol Arweave also faces the issue of adoption. The non-tech audience is very small in web3 space itself and out of that Arweave has a very small user base. That is the main issue that AO faces which funnels down to infrastructure products like 0rbit. As soon as more data-rich applications are developed on AO need for 0rbit will grow exponentially. Having said that, things are drastically changing. The projects that have been built and the way people are taking AO are on the whole a positive sign for Arweave. Now, is the best time to enter into the ecosystem as exponential growth is about to start.
Q: Many people used to compare Arweave with Filcoin. After the launch of the AO protocol, many people liked to compare AO with ICP. There were also many very fierce opinions on Twitter. What do you think of this phenomenon?
A: I have a very basic view on things when there is a conflicting opinion or a debate. People usually debate or talk about things with two mindsets:
A) They want to understand something new that has been presented to them and they have a very open mind to accept the change and also, talk about the flaws；
B) They have a very extreme belief in something and are too attached to a particular thing which gives a very little window for growth and to have constructive criticism.
Personally, I feel the first case is necessary as it gives room for growth for all the protocols and at the same time people also get more and more aware of what’s going on. The whole foundation of web3 is on building in public and these debates are part of it. And it helps in the individual growth along with the community.
As for the later case, I believe in what Itachi Uchiha(one of my fav anime characters) said, ”One’s reality is another’s illusion.” This means knowledge and awareness are vague and perhaps called illusions. Also, these tweets become good meme material.
Q: I heard that the 0rbit team is all from India. At the same time, I saw that Arweave in India has been constantly organizing hackathons and developer communities. Arweave Oasis has also been established in China, and Arweave in the Philippines has also been established. What do you think of the development of Arweave in Asia? Are you considering establishing a Chinese community for 0rbit in the future?
A: The growth of Arweave in recent years have been amazing and it has been great to see the contribution of people of Asia region. We have seen and are expecting multiple crypto events to happen in Asia, and with the support of developers and local people we could establish a stronger community in Asia.
Making people aware is the first step to achieving a big goal, and local communities like Arweave India, Arweave Oasis, and Arweave Philippines are doing amazing work to promote better growth. With these initiatives, as more and more people will be aware, we will see exponential growth in the ecosystem.
As I mentioned, most of the stuff is open-source, and we always give our best to provide what the community asks us for. We would be happy to collaborate with developers to contribute Chinese-translated docs, take sessions in the native language, have a community person organize events and make more and more people aware of 0rbit. As for the community, we don’t have a region-wise community yet, as the 0rbit community is still growing. And if there is a need for a dedicated community and people ask for it, we are open to establishing one.
Q: Sam announced the launch of AO at the Berlin conference, and also announced how to obtain AO. What do you think of the development of AO and the design of the AO economic model?
A: Forward Research did an amazing job with a 100% community token launch. Before AO, the only major protocol that has achieved something like this was Bitcoin. Ideally, this should be the case for all the protocols and whoever, contributes to the network should get rewarded. However, it also makes it very difficult for the founders to get the resources to build the protocol in the initial stages that’s why usually they raise through selling tokens, and then to increase the floating volume and achieve decentralization protocol have to give away tokens to people who have low or zero contribution which, results in dumping of the token. Hence, the price discovery becomes difficult and results in a volatile price of the token. The fair launch will avoid this scenario from playout and in turn, create stability in the AO ecosystem.
We at 0rbit are trying to achieve the same thing. 0rbit token is going to be 100% community and we are trying to find a way to utilize bridged assets to sustain ourselves. Once the bridged assets are available on the network people can utilize those to contribute to the network and in return, they can get 0rbit Tokens.
I believe in the coming years more and more protocols are going to do the same hence, paving the way to build a more decentralized and stable protocol.
Q: What do you think is the uniqueness of AO that other public chains do not have?
A: We all know that the tech AO provides opens new domains and perspectives for building new products, and everyone is talking about it. However, I would like to highlight one important thing that is not being discussed: the developer experience while building on AO. Arweave has one of the best, if not the best, communities in the ecosystem, and the ease of developing on AO has given the developers something I haven’t seen in any other ecosystem yet. Developers have the flexibility to build, and with AOS, one can have the runtime environment, which enables them to run smart contracts directly without having to do deployment or multiple setups. It is similar to writing code in any IDE. Apart from that, AO is also language agnostic giving developer the freedom to choose a particular tech stack according to their need.
Part II: Regarding Lucifer
Q: We know you come from India, Can you tell us about the current status of Web3 development in India?
A: People in India are yet early but have moved from being participants to contributors. Folks contributing to major web3 protocols is a big win and the growth has always been exponential since the success of Polygon. Multiple investment opportunities from both local and global VCs have led to a boom in startup ecosystems. Major cities already have great communities and organizing meetups and workshops to create awareness. We still have a long way to go as tier 2-3 cities are still untapped, and budding developers are unaware of the upcoming opportunities in the ecosystem.
As a result, many developers, entrepreneurs, and investors from India have become integral parts of the Web3 ecosystem across the globe. Some areas need improvement, and people are taking the initiative along with the government to make things better. It will take some time to get there, and we will see more and more consumer involvement in the Web3 ecosystem from India.
Q: The US SEC has approved spot EFTs for Bitcoin and Ethereum, Coinbase is also listed in the United States, and the settlement volume of USDT has surpassed that of Visa. How do Indian regulators view the Web3 industry, especially their attitude toward cryptocurrency assets (such as BTC, AR, and AO)?
A: Indian regulators have maintained a cautious stance towards the web3 industry in general. The primary regulatory body, the Reserve Bank of India(RBI), has expressed concerns over the potential misuse of cryptocurrencies for illicit activities. However, India's government is trying to devise a solution to filter out these illicit activities. The government is open to adopting cryptocurrencies as an asset class, and they have even tried to inculcate NFTs and ZK proof at some events. RBI has been actively exploring the possibility of a Central Bank Digital Currency through which they are trying to find a way to adopt other cryptocurrencies.
Q: Could you please share your educational background and professional experience?
A: I received my Bachelor of Technology in Information Technology at Manipal University Jaipur in India. My passion for programming began before college and grew through participating in and winning multiple hackathons. In my third year, I interned at Dell Technologies as a Software Developer and later, after graduation, started working at Dell. However, before joining Dell, I worked as a back-end engineer intern for a web2 fintech startup, handling its infrastructure and building a tool to optimize the subsidy process. They still use that tool on their website. In my Final year, I joined a Defi startup, Astrotechlab, in the Sui ecosystem as a Founding backend and Infrastructure Engineer. I designed and developed the whole Infrastructure with most of the backend technologies that were being used by the product at that time. In 2023, I graduated from college and joined Dell Technologies as a full-time Software Developer. There, I optimized the compliance monitoring system's performance and scalability, which helped accommodate the monitoring from 10k servers to 55k servers. In January 2024, I met Sam and started working on 0rbit. In March, I left my job at Dell to pursue 0rbit as a full-time founder.
Q: How did you become familiar with Arweave?
A: I have known about Arweave for a long time as I was active in Developer DAO, and I knew Lens was utilizing it. I never got the chance to build over Arweave, as I thought it was just used to store files and other stuff. Thanks to Arweave India, I learned about warp and all the things that can be done on Arweave. Then I started learning about Arweave, built a migration tool in Arweave India Hacker House Cohort 1, and secured 2nd prize in the hackathon. After the hacker house, I started learning more to understand the capabilities and what can be achieved using Arweave. A month later, I learned about AO, and since then, I have been building on AO.
Q: In such a bear market environment, what advice do you have for those who want to enter web3?
A: Rather than focusing on a bear or a bull market, people should concentrate on learning and whether they enjoy what they are doing or building. Bear and bull markets represent the cyclical nature of the ecosystem, and even in Web2, there are periods of recession and expansion. One should focus on learning and, while doing that, strive to create value. If you love what you are doing, you will enjoy the journey, which is a significant part of reaching the destination. The line that helps me keep going when I feel low is, “What’s there to lose? If it works out, I’ll win. If it doesn’t, I’ll learn. There is no other outcome.”
Q: Are you under a lot of pressure in life and work right now? Have you ever regretted it?
A: As an entrepreneur, working under pressure and juggling multiple responsibilities is part of the job. There is no easy way around it; embracing the struggle is essential. Even before founding 0rbit, I never quite understood the traditional concept of work-life balance or the idea of a strict “50-50” split. Instead, I prioritize tasks based on their importance. If a task requires my attention, I will sacrifice sleep to get it done. Conversely, if I need a break, I allow myself to take a day off, even if it’s during the week. This approach might not be conventional or the healthiest, but it works for me. I am fortunate to have the support of my friends and family. Their support has been crucial, and it would have been impossible to manage everything without them. And no, I’ve never regretted it. I love it. As a programmer, you always get those “aha” moments whenever your code compiles, and as an entrepreneur, every step you take feels like one of those “aha” moments. It’s not wrong to say that I look forward to those moments.
Part III: Regarding 0rbit & PermaDAO and everVision
Q: PermaDAO is the largest Arweave community in the entire Chinese ecosystem, Have you heard of PermaDAO or everVision before?
A: Yes, I have. While learning about arweave I have read a lot of articles from the PermaDAO. And with the help of everVision I bought my first AR.
Q: What improvements do you think PermaDAO needs?
A: PermaDAO is doing an amazing work. I will say just keep going with it. Looking forward to seeing people from more and more regions join and contribute to PermaDAO
Q: In your view, how should PermaDAO and 0rbit collaborate in the future?
A: Some of the potential ways we can collaborate is by creating more and easy study material around 0rbit and making people aware of the potential of 0rbit. Also, if in any way we can help the people from PermaDAO community to utilize 0rbit to build some amazing products.
Q: By the way, Before this interview, we looked at your official website. It seems that there is only an English version at present. Will you make a complete Chinese website in the future? PermaDAO's translation team can undertake this part of the work.
A: Yes, we would be happy to do that. As I mentioned, the whole website and docs are open-sourced, and if PeramDAO can help in translation, we would love to add a Chinese translation.
Q: How do you perceive the team and business development of everVision?
A: We haven't worked with the team yet; however, there is potential for collaboration in the near future. The team has done amazing work in the ecosystem, and I consider them top experts.
Q: Lastly, is there anything else you would like to say to the audience?
A: Before ending, I would like to encourage everyone who is building or learning in the community to not focus on the money but on generating value. As Sam Altman like to say, “You get paid as a founder for the wealth you create for other people.”
Conclusion
The birth of 0rbit, like a rising star in the Arweave ecosystem, not only illuminates the future of permanent data storage but also ignites the enthusiasm for innovation in the Indian developer community. From the initial glimpse at the Arweave Ecosystem Weekly Sharing Session to the final completion of this in-depth interview after two months, I was deeply impressed by the development history of the 0rbit project and Lucifer's optimism, rigor, and serious attitude. He answered every question I asked carefully and patiently and introduced the origin, development status, and future plans of 0rbit in detail. From the initial flash of inspiration in the Arweave India Hacker House Cohort, to the in-depth discussion with Arweave founder Sam, to the close cooperation with ForwardResearch and Arweave India, every step of 0rbit embodies the hard work and wisdom of the team, and also confirms the growing influence of the Indian developer community in the Arweave ecosystem. The outstanding performance of the Indian team at the Arweave Ecosystem Conference in Berlin, and the success of 0rbit as its outstanding representative, both indicate that Arweave’s “Light of Asia” will shine even brighter.
We believe that with the participation of Chinese communities such as PermaDAO and everVision, Arweave's ecosystem will be more prosperous and the "Light of Asia" will be brighter. As the largest Asian community officially incubated by Arweave, PermaDAO has long been committed to building an open, collaborative, and win-win Arweave ecosystem. We have developed Permaswap, the decentralized exchange with the largest traffic in the Arweave and AO ecosystems, and provided a series of practical tools for DAO organizations, aiming to empower Arweave ecological projects and promote the progress of the Web3 industry. At the same time, we are also actively conducting in-depth interviews to record the real experiences and mental journeys of Arweave ecological projects and developers, showing the outside world the vigorous development and huge potential of the Arweave ecosystem, and encouraging more people to participate in the construction of Web3. Looking to the future, the vigorous development of DAO organizations, the widespread application of bounty incentive models, and the increasing maturity of cutting-edge technologies such as artificial intelligence have created unprecedented opportunities for Web3 builders and participants. We look forward to more sparks between PermaDAO and 0rbit, the Chinese community and the Indian community, and jointly contribute to the prosperity and development of the Arweave & AO ecosystem and even the Web3 world! Let us work together to build a more open, free, and prosperous future, and let Arweave's "Light of Asia" illuminate the new world of Web3!
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